Should these mystery NHLers be in the HHOF?
There will always be heated debate about who deserves to be in the Hockey Hall of Fame but if you remove the name and the stories, which player's stats would get your vote?
Video Transcript
JULIAN MCKENZIE: So I had an idea to discuss in light of the Hockey Hall of Fame, the induction ceremony being on Monday. I wanted initially for everyone to name me a player who should be in the Hall of Fame.
And I thought, you know what? That's a lot of work. So instead, I've decided to compile some stats and some accolades for some players, but I'm not going to mention who those guys are. I'm just going to read off a bit of their resume, and you tell me if they should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame or not. Does that sound cool? Does that sound fun?
OMAR: Oh, yeah. That's good.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Definitely. Very cool. Can we--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Then after that--
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Can we try to guess the player outright, Julian?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Sure. You could if you want. Why not?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: OK.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: All right. I'm just going to go at random here with all the names that I have here. I have five different names. So this guy-- two-time Vezina nominee, Olympic gold medalist. As far as I know, they've never made a Stanley Cup Final. And the lone individual honor that they've won is a King Clancy award. But he has over 450 career wins as a goalie.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I think I know who this is.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Currently not in the Hall of Fame.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I think I know who it is.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I think it's Curtis Joseph. And it should be in the Hall of Fame.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK, so you're saying it's Curtis Joseph. And you're saying he should be in the Hall of Fame. Why would you say the-- first off, why would you say this person with this resume, whoever this person is, should be in the Hall of Fame?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I think he was one of the best goalies of an era where it was a golden age for goalies. Certainly, maybe there is a Maple Leafs bias in there, too, a little bit, but he led the Leafs in the most prosperous era of my time growing up. He was really good. He was a stellar goalie for-- one of the best goalies in the league for eight to nine years. And I guess the resume part, because he was on the 2002 Olympic team, if memory serves, right?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yes, he was.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: And has never been to a Stanley Cup Final, I think? Hence the guess?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Nope.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: So for that, for those reasons, I would say Curtis Joseph's in. But he should be one of those guys that gets into the Hall onto the seniors committee in 25 years.
OMAR: All right.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Anyway.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK, so--
ARUN SRINIVASAN: So that's my-- that's my whole thing. Anyway.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Sam, Omar, does this person, still nameless for now-- should they be in the Hall of Fame or not?
OMAR: Um, I don't know. I think-- it sucks because there are some moments where getting a Stanley Cup is like-- it's cool. And other times it's just like, oh, you've done so much. You can kind of let it slide. I don't know if I can answer that question without any bias because Cujo was sick.
[LAUGHTER]
So I don't know. I don't know if I can answer-- if I can answer that question without any bias. I think bias, I'd say, yeah, that'd be cool. But without bias, I don't know. I think there are probably some goalies that might, I guess, get some notice or consideration before that.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: I can think of a few.
OMAR: All right. So I guess from that I'm kind of split down the middle.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK, Sam, I don't think you have-- I mean, I don't know if bias really matters here, but it seems to be in this case.
SAM CHANG: Um--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Can-- go ahead.
SAM CHANG: I would say-- can you remind me of the stats again?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: So 450 career wins as a goalie. I didn't mention the amount of games played, 943. Two-time Vezina nominee, Olympic gold medallist, never been to a Stanley Cup Final.
OMAR: Oh, never been to a final. Ouch.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Never been to a Stanley Cup Final.
SAM CHANG: OK, I have two points to make here. I think I would be on the fence. I can kind of understand why they're not in yet. I can see the argument either way.
But related to that, my biggest beef with the Hall of Fame is that they treat it like the NHL Hall of Fame, and it's not. It's the Hockey Hall of Fame.
OMAR: That's right.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: That is a very good point.
SAM CHANG: And it drives me insane that all of the stats are like, well, what do they do in the NHL? What awards did they win? That's not the point of the Hockey Hall of Fame. And that mentality is also why they only allow two women to be inducted every year.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah, that's very true. We need--
OMAR: Where is the lie?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: I was waiting on you to bring up that point. That is something that we mentioned the last time--
OMAR: Where is the lie?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: --we talked about the Hockey Hall of Fame on this show. Where is the lie? I do not see any of them. So you seem to be on the fence with the mystery person?
SAM CHANG: I'm on the fence.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK.
SAM CHANG: I'm going to say no.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK. All right, so we have two yeses and one no. Yes, it is Curtis Joseph. For the next few ones, I will get you to hold off on guessing until we go through all the stats first.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Sorry, my bad.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: No, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine. This is cool. This was something that literally came to mind 15 minutes before we started recording. I probably could have thought about that a little bit better, too. That's OK. How about this--
SAM CHANG: I like that he knew right away.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Oh, yeah. That's amazing that Arun knew. But also, Arun is incredibly smart.
OMAR: Oh, yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: So that's great. How about this guy?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Sometimes.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: 1,184 career points in almost 1,500 NHL games. He's won the Stanley Cup once. He's only been an all-star once. But he's won the Selke Trophy twice.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Oh, I know this. And this player--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Don't guess who it is. Don't guess who it is!
ARUN SRINIVASAN: OK. This player should be in the Hall, though, yes.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Wow, OK. All right. Just off of that.
OMAR: So can you-- so 1,100 points?
SAM CHANG: I also know who this is.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: 1,184 career points.
OMAR: And they've had--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: 1,184 career points.
OMAR: Sorry? Say that one more time?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: 1,184 career points.
OMAR: In how many games?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: In almost 1,500.
OMAR: In 1,500 games?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: In 1,484 career games, so under 1,500.
OMAR: Man. Wait.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: And they've won the Stanley Cup once.
OMAR: Is that--
SAM CHANG: My vote is yes.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: My vote is yes.
OMAR: I think I know who it is. Yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Oh, OK, you guys all want--
SAM CHANG: Not only yes, but I can't believe he's not in.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK, can you guys-- do you guys want to all guess all at once?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Yes.
OMAR: No.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: I feel like you guys all know the name. On the count of three, people-- 1, 2, 3.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Rod Brind'Amour.
SAM CHANG: Rod the Bod.
OMAR: Rob Brind'Amour.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: There we go, Rod Brind'Amour. You're very good. That's good! OK. Yeah, he's not in.
OMAR: That's wild, man.
SAM CHANG: It's crazy that he's not in.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: How much fun would it be if the Hurricanes won the Cup and then he gets inducted into the Hall, so he's got-- wins the Cup in June and goes into the Hall in November next year?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: That would be cool.
SAM CHANG: That would be cool.
OMAR: And just pitches everyone through the chest because he's jacked.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: He could still play in the league. I'm convinced--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Not to mention, speaking of jacked, he has a Jack Adams.
OMAR: OK.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: There you go. You know what? You know, one of the give away on your hints was the two Selkies.
OMAR: Mm-hmm.
SAM CHANG: Yeah.
OMAR: That's true.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: How about this next player?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: OK.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: 401 career wins as a goalie. He's won the Cup three times, but he's only been an all-star once. But he's also one of a handful of goalies to have scored a goal.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: 401 and three Cup wins.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Three Cups, one all-star. I believe it's 12 goalies have scored in the National Hockey League.
SAM CHANG: I know who this is.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: They have scored 400 wins.
SAM CHANG: No, he should not be in the Hall of Fame.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Ooh.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Why am I blanking so hard? Who is--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK, Sam, why do you think--
ARUN SRINIVASAN: This one, I don't know who it is. So, yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Sam, why do you think this person should not be in the Hall of Fame?
SAM CHANG: Because he played behind a team that would have won the Cup regardless of--
OMAR: Oh!
SAM CHANG: --who was in the net.
OMAR: Is it? I-- oh, I know who it is. I know who it is.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I think I know who it is.
SAM CHANG: You could have iced an AHL goaltender and they would have won.
OMAR: Yeah, yeah, no. Yeah. [LAUGHS] I agree.
SAM CHANG: Also because I'm an Avs fan.
OMAR: Yeah, I agree.
SAM CHANG: So it's a no for me.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: There's some bias there.
OMAR: Yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: There's some bias in your answer.
OMAR: Yeah, that's the discussion back and forth.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Arun, do you know who this is?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I think I know who it is now. I would say no based off the résumé. But also, if the player is who I think it is, then it's a no.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK, so who's going to guess it? Who's going to-- just say the name.
SAM CHANG: Chris Osgood.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I'm not nearly as sure to pursue it.
OMAR: Osgood, yeah.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I think it's Chris Osgood, yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: It is Chris Osgood. There is a big debate over whether or not Chris Osgood, who, yes, he won those Cups with the Detroit Red Wings. He was a big part of them.
OMAR: That's like me coaching Team Canada and saying, give me the Jack Adams.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: No, that's not true.
OMAR: Man! Man!
JULIAN MCKENZIE: [LAUGHS]
OMAR: Those teams were sick! Come on! Those teams were sick.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: That's true. That's true, that's true. I'm sorry. I'm hating. I'm hating, I'm hating. I'm hating. You behind the bench with Sidney Crosby and-- imagine the 2010 team, for example.
OMAR: Yes, Sidney, go.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Do something.
OMAR: I'm like, what?
[LAUGHTER]
Oh, my gosh, man. Those teams were fricking disgusting, man.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: They were great.
OMAR: Oh, my god.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: They were good. Yeah. I don't know. Chris Osgood-- I mean, yeah, I'm on the fence with Chris Osgood.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: It's the Hall of Fame.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Maybe if he works with--
ARUN SRINIVASAN: It's the Hall of Fame, emphasis on fame. Where's the fame at?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: I mean, not a lot of goalies work cages like Chris Osgood. That's pretty famous, I guess, sort of.
OMAR: I'd be yeah, but you know.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah, you know.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Chris Terreri wore a cage.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Hey!
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Dominik Hasek wore a cage.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Hey! And also, he won Stanley Cups.
OMAR: Cool.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: That brings about notoriety and fame.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I-- I guess.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Right?
OMAR: I guess, man, but like--
SAM CHANG: I don't know. Are you going to give Antti Niemi-- are you going to put Antti Niemi in the--
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Right. [LAUGHS]
SAM CHANG: --Hall of Fame?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Hell, no. He didn't win all those Cubs for Chicago. He only won one.
OMAR: I keep forgetting who was on that team.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: He didn't win three. Antti Niemi was there for that first Cup, the Cup win in how many years for Chicago.
OMAR: Yeah, that's unfortunate.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah, with one of the weirdest game-winning goals to that. But that's for another day.
All right, how about this player?
OMAR: Michael Leighton, oh, my god.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah, that's true.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: That was the worst [INAUDIBLE] ever.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: That's one of the worst goalie battles ever, Antti Niemi versus Michael Leighton.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: It's the worst one ever.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Oh, my gosh.
OMAR: Hold back. Hold back. I high-pitch screamed, "What?" at the TV when fricking they were celebrating. I was like, that went in? And they showed the replay. I was like, no fricking way!
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Man.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I watched that one at Palladium. I was working at Palladium, and I watched that one with the--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: What is Palladium?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Palladium is like an adult-- well, no, it's not--
OMAR: It's awesome.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: It's basically a huge arcade. And I was working there at the time. So I watched the game on silent during my shift.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: I was in my mom's bed. I was in my parents' bedroom, on their tiny TV, watching it. And I remember just thinking-- that was also the year of those really cool NHL-- those commercials they had in the playoffs where they would take a moment, and they would rewind it. It's like what if this player didn't do this. Those moments?
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Oh, yeah. I think--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Those were some of the best NHL moments. And just the music from the commercials in my head was like, wow, Patrick Kane might do something cool here. And then he scored. And, well, you know, that was what we thought of that championship in lighter times.
OMAR: And now we know the truth. And, yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Now we know the truth. Yeah, so anyway. Let's move on to another player here. I have two other names. There's two really obvious things about-- well, at least there's one obvious thing about this person that I'm going to withhold for now. But they only have one individual accolade. They won a Lady Byng Memorial Trophy in 2003.
They only had two 100-point seasons, which is very interesting to me. But they've been an all-star six times. And they are a member of the Triple Gold Club, yet still not in the Hall of Fame.
OMAR: How many goals?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: All time?
OMAR: Like in their career.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: 473.
OMAR: OK. So, wait. Is that? Is it? No, is that? No, it was not him.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: It's not him. It's not him.
OMAR: Well, Triple Gold Club-- that's pretty fricking cool.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: It is pretty cool, right?
OMAR: Yeah, so that's Olympic, world championship, and the Stanley Cup?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Correct. They have won all three of those, but they are not in the Hockey Hall of Fame as of now. I don't know if I want to give y'all this hint because I feel like that just makes it super obvious. Or more obvious that it should. Or maybe it doesn't. I don't know.
OMAR: What's the hint?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: They scored 76 goals in a season.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Oh, yeah.
OMAR: Oh, OK. Then, yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yep, there it is. There we go.
[LAUGHTER]
There it is.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: So, yes, this person should be in the Hall.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah. All right, say the name everybody.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: It's Alex Mogilny.
OMAR: Alex Mogilny.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Alexander Mogilny, former Leaf.
OMAR: So sick. So cool.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah.
OMAR: I have such a weird-- I have such a weird connection to--
SAM CHANG: He's the most obvious person who should be in the Hall.
OMAR: I don't know why he's not.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Agreed.
OMAR: I don't know how he's not, man.
SAM CHANG: It makes no sense.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: It makes no sense.
OMAR: Oh, my god. Fricking so sick.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: I forget that Mogilny won a Cup. That doesn't come top of mind. But he did. I think it's maybe because it was just so late towards the end of his career, but.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Well, it's funny enough. The year 2000, with the New Jersey Devils, I think he scored 43 goals that regular season. Near the end of his career, but he still-- that was probably his last really good year.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: And he gets himself a Stanley Cup to cap off winning a triple-- being a member of the Triple Gold Club.
All right, one last one for you guys. A Hart Trophy winner, won the Lester B. Pearson Award, now known as the Ted Lindsay Award. Olympic gold medalist. 865 points in his lifetime, though. So he has not reached 1,000.
OMAR: How many goals?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: 372.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: So he won the Hart and the Lester B. Pearson, but [INAUDIBLE] point.
OMAR: Does this person's name start with a P?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: No.
OMAR: OK. Because I was like--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Oh, were you thinking--
OMAR: Because from the initial plan of this, I had a person that I think-- that may not have a lot of points and stuff, but I think should get in at some point. We can talk about it afterwards. I don't know who this person is.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Hmm, interesting.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: My guess-- this player is in the Hall already, so it's is not him.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah, so this person currently not in the Hall. 865 career points.
OMAR: In how many games?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Actually, you know what? Yeah, 865 points.
OMAR: OK. In how many games?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: In 760 games.
OMAR: And no other world championships and international--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Hart Trophy. I think they have a gold medal.
OMAR: Gold medal where?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Just without trying to think of who this person is, do you think this person--
OMAR: No, no, I'm not trying-- no, that's what I'm trying to figure out, just based on--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OMAR: So they just have an Olympic gold medal and that's it?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yeah, they won it in 2002.
OMAR: Eh. Eh. He can sit.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: So you don't feel this person should be--
SAM CHANG: It's a no for me, but I don't know who it is.
OMAR: Yeah, that's what I--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: So you're saying no. Sam, you're saying no. Arun, what are you saying? Don't guess who this is.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: A circumstantial no, based on what are the circumstances that led to the end of their career. So I guess it's a no. I guess it's a no. No, you can't. You can't. So I guess it's a no for now, with an asterisk.
OMAR: Yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: OK, so I have to admit, for this one, that one is a trick question because this person is already in the Hockey Hall of Fame. That is Eric Lindros.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Yeah, I figured it couldn't-- yeah, it had to be Lindros because I was like this person is in the Hall. They can't be it.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: [LAUGHS]
OMAR: Oh, OK.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: It was a trick question.
OMAR: Trick question. Fair.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Was a trick question. So you guys all said-- very interesting. I mean, then again, you're right. I didn't mention the context of the injuries that led to them only playing so many games.
OMAR: Yeah, man. That's like-- there are so many-- you look at so many careers of players, even the careers that were sick, and it's just like-- [INAUDIBLE]. If you were just healthy, like holy, the things you-- and Eric Lindros is one of them, which is so unfortunate. Even thinking of Mario Lemieux, man. Mario Lemieux already had a sick career, but imagine if it was full-on fine. Saku Koivu, another one as well. It's so unfortunate, but yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: What was the name of the player you were thinking of at first who you didn't want to reveal?
OMAR: Oh, me?
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Your first guess. Yes.
OMAR: Oh, I-- man, OK. So I am well aware that this person may not have all the accolades and stuff. But I love frickin' Pavel Datsyuk, man. What he did for the game-- he completely changed the gateway. When it comes to skill, the Datsyukian Deke-- he murdered Logan Couture. That fricking clip just always goes in my head.
So when it comes to a person that may not have the accolades and all the trophies and stuff, didn't win a Stanley Cup-- but when it comes to this raw influence in the game of hockey, I hope he's someone that-- not any time soon because obviously there are other names you want to get to for sure. But I hope at some point, what Pavel Datsyuk did to the sport of hockey, it's recognized. Because they called him the Magic Man for a reason. And he just did some disgusting stuff out there, just like-- and just made it look-- made it look easy, so.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: You see his influence on the game today, too. It's not just like a guy--
OMAR: Oh, yeah.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Big time. Big time.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: [INAUDIBLE] who you're like, man, I don't really remember him. You do. Literally, Nick Suzuki pulled off a Datsyukian goal the other week.
OMAR: The Suzukis, the Marners, the Trevor Zegrases-- that's Datsyukian stuff that they're doing, man.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: Yeah, man. It's unreal. There's one other thing on Datsyuk, too. I think no one has made the game-- no one's made defensive responsibility look more fun than Pavel Datsyuk.
OMAR: Oh!
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Yep.
OMAR: Oh!
ARUN SRINIVASAN: And that part--
JULIAN MCKENZIE: And he's won more the one Selke Trophy.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: And that part translated to the modern game, too, where you see these young guys trying cool shit out for sure. But I think that part, too-- the emphasis playing defense instead of hockey, it's like, oh, that's Guy Carbonneau's rule. No, you can be a high-end player and try cool stuff and be the best defensive player, best forward in hockey. So I think that's an equal part of his legacy.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Triple Gold Club winner, two-time Stanley Cup champion, three-time Selke winner, four-time Lady Byng. I mean, fine, he doesn't have 1,000 points, if I recall correctly, but--
OMAR: I don't [INAUDIBLE].
JULIAN MCKENZIE: --I don't see any reason. 918 career points. I don't see any reason why Pavel Datsyuk shouldn't be in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Sam, are you willing to say something nice about a member of the Detroit Red Wings?
SAM CHANG: I think Datsyuk should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: Well, at least we got you to say that.
ARUN SRINIVASAN: [LAUGHS] There you go.
OMAR: And also, I think Datsyuk was more like a seventh round pick or something?
SAM CHANG: Yeah.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: He was one of those late round picks from the Detroit Red Wings, yes.
OMAR: Like, man.
JULIAN MCKENZIE: They found a way to make that board.
SAM CHANG: Objectively, he should be in the Hall.
