Barry Levinson on 'The Alto Knights' and AI in Hollywood: "You Can't Stop Technological Advancements"
Barry Levinson’s Oscar doesn’t have pride of place in his Los Angeles office, but it’s there: a Best Director statuette for Rain Man, on a little shelf, at the end of a row of little shelves above his huge wall-mounted TV. The 82-year-old filmmaker has made two dozen features: his first, Diner, in 1982; Rain Man, in 1988, was his sixth. Among the others are Sleepers, Good Morning, Vietnam, The Natural and Young Sherlock Holmes. His latest, the mob drama The Alto Knights, is his fifth collaboration with Robert De Niro (including The Wizard of Lies, one of the four TV movies Levinson has made for HBO since 2010). You could argue it’s their fifth and sixth team-up, since De Niro plays both leading roles, the real-life Mafia figures Frank Costello and Vito Genovese.
Esquire: What was it like working with De Niro at twice the usual rate?
Barry Levinson: It was really terrific. In general, working with Bob is exciting. There are always surprises. He’s always open to discussing things and he’s extremely well prepared. That preparation allows for the spontaneity of his performances.
How did he come to play both parts?
It was [producer] Irwin [Winkler’s idea]. When we finally got a draft of the script that we liked, he said, “What do you think about Bob playing both characters?” We thought about it, and then you go, well, we’re talking about one of the great actors in the history of cinema here, let's see how he reacts to the challenge. Bob immediately thought it would be interesting, and said “let me see what I can do”.
What he did do, was great work.
He did, and he didn't take it lightly. He said, “Look, when we shoot [the scenes with both Frank and Vito], I don't want to just have the script supervisor reading the lines off camera. We have to get an actor.” So we did, and when Bob would do Vito, that actor would play Frank, and then they would switch over, do the opposite.
So then pressure was on that guy to mirror De Niro and play off him?
Absolutely, without question. That's why Bob picked him because Bob thought he would be good enough to challenge him. I can’t say who it was.
Omerta. In the movie, Vito’s voice is higher-pitched than Frank’s. Did you use AI for that, like the makers of The Brutalist and Emilia Perez did to alter character voices?
No, that was all Bob.
Forty years ago, in Young Sherlock Holmes, you had the first all-CGI character in a film. Isn’t AI just a new iteration of tech for filmmakers to use as they see fit?
You can't stop technological advancements. You just can't just say, “Oh no, we don't do that.” How do you accommodate it? That is the issue. In the history of film, there have been so many changes like this that have taken place. This one is complicated, but we need to think: how do we move forward? What are the economics of it and what are the creative aspects of it? They all have to be figured out. AI will be part of filmmaking in the future, without question.
What’s it like to direct a movie when you’re 80 years old?
I try not to think about that. I have to say this: I have been fortunate in that I've been able to kind of do these things and truly enjoy the process. I just love working with actors, working on the scripts, on the design of it. It's so engaging to me. Boy, did I get lucky that I ended up getting into this world. I am as enthusiastic now as I was the first time I ever got a chance to write or direct, or to do both.
I was unable to see, by legal means, the first film on which you’re credited, for co-writing the script – the 1975 exploitation flick Street Girls.
I’ve never seen it either! A friend of mine, Michael Miller, who was working on it [as writer and director], said, “we’re having some problems with the script, maybe you can come up and give a hand.” So I went up there and I'd write little things and they would shoot them. It was a Roger Corman movie: you know, fly by the seat of your pants and all that. My first baby steps into the movie business.
2025 is a big year for the movie business – the first full calendar year of cinema releases since Covid and the 2023 writers’ and actors’ strikes. The Alto Knights is a non-franchise drama aimed at adults – a risky venture, according to some. How does that sit with you?
People say that audiences only want special effects adventure movies, in America and across the world? It’s more complicated than that. The corporate sensibility that has invaded Hollywood has been detrimental, in a way, because it focuses on one area and forgets the wider possibilities, the any number of ways to tell stories. You want to always captivate an audience, but there isn't one formula. There just isn't. We are a diverse people, worldwide, and we don't all share the same sensibility. So if you only go one way, to go after one group, at the same time you're turning off a giant audience that was waiting for something else to happen that never showed up – and then you're shrinking your overall audience. The industry isn’t going the way I’m thinking about it.
Did you like the films that were up for the Oscars this year?
I liked Anora. I thought it was great fun. The 15-20-minute scene in the house, with the Russians and [Anora, played by Mikey Madison] , is one of the best put-together sequences I've seen in a long time. I didn't agree with the decisions about some of the other movies, but that's fine. That's the way it all works.
Perhaps The Alto Knights will be in the mix next year?
Fingers crossed. You never know.
The Alto Knights is in cinemas from 21 March
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